Avatar describes itself as an outsider on the metal scene, but it is clearly a new heavyweight that we met on the occasion of the release of its new album, ‘Don't Go in the Forest’. For this tenth album, released on Halloween itself, Avatar comes out of the woods with a treat that is sure to thrill its growing fanbase... So, trick or treat?
Your latest news is the release of ‘Don't Go in the Forest’. Listening to this album, one gets the feeling that you have produced a worthy successor to ‘Avatar Country’, which had a more pronounced conceptual aspect and in which you explored more directions than on the two previous albums. What drives you to go further and further and makes you want to step outside your comfort zone?
I think it's as simple as wanting to learn something new. I see art as a way of expressing what's inside you, but more specifically as a musician and composer, you have to try to do things: there's so much to do!
Past successes and failures challenge us to ask ourselves how we can evolve... This album has developed things in terms of arrangements, but also for us as musicians and singers... The big question is how to make everything melodic much more dynamic. The goal is to try to raise our level each time (smile), like in video games when you change levels and have to fight a bigger boss...
We have to try to do things: there's so much to do!...
... beyond the level of the boss you have to face each time you change levels, aren't you afraid of the reaction of your fans who might be disappointed with the changes?
No, we don't care at all (laughs)! I care about what people think, otherwise I wouldn't offer them our music. I have my own personal project where I play the piano and write songs that I immediately forget because I write them for myself...
These new songs are also for me – with the audience in mind, of course – but first and foremost, the first audience for our songs are the five members of the band, who have to love these tracks.
And we have to accept that this may be our last album. You never know. If it were our last album, what would be important for us to express? Whatever we feel, we try to do it together in a way that makes sense to the audience. And hopefully, the audience will feel the songs in a way that connects with how we felt when we made them. So, in a way, we have the audience in mind with the aim of entertaining our guests.
I'll make a comparison with cooking. I love to cook, and with every meal, I'm going to do what I want to do and eat first and foremost, but of course, I also want you to enjoy the meal.
How did you come up with this concept? We remember ‘Avatar Country’ with its polished music videos like ‘The King Wants You’. Could Avatar one day venture into different media? Why not an Avatar rock opera or Avatar The Movie?
Absolutely. It's a dream, but it won't happen this week... But our next challenge would be to make our stage performances like a rock opera musical that you would only play in theatres in Paris, London and New York, for example... We would do several performances and it would be the audience that would travel to see us. But to do that, we would need to build a large, solid audience that would be willing to travel to see such a ‘stationary’ show.
This album is more free and intuitive!
Indeed, this new album lends itself to such a project...
Musically, there are certain themes on this album, but mainly musically or from a methodological point of view - rather than themes in the songs... If we go back to ‘Avatar Country’, we had a plan when we started this album, but the result was that we got tired of plans, especially for ‘Hunter Gatherer’, which turned out to be the exact opposite... And because we did ‘Hunter Gatherer’, we went back to planning things a bit for ‘Dance Devil Dance’: a rock “n” roll album that's a lot of fun, but there's also a spiritual aspect...
All these experiences meant that we didn't have a plan at the beginning of this new album: we were more in a research mode, letting the themes grow without the method or strict structural rules we had in ‘Dance Devil Dance’: we were freed from that.
There's this idea of making rock “n” roll and dance music in ‘Dance Devil Dance’ in the sense that you had to stay in the same tempo in the same song. In contrast, this album is more free and intuitive, and particularly in the composition and lyrics, I remained in my subconscious. On some level, all ideas come to you when you're not thinking.
Despite everything, it feels like a concept album...
... Which it isn't!
But how do you explain why we get that feeling when we listen to it?
There's a vibe and an overall idea! A lot of the songs come from dreams or the subconscious...
Avatar is conceptual art in my mind!
Still, looking back, do you understand this feeling of a concept album?
Of course, because we feel it too.
But it's different from all the other albums where we asked ourselves what we were going to do. For this album, we asked ourselves what we had done. We recorded this album in Germany and the vocals in Helsinki, and during our travels, we talked among ourselves and realised that something was missing. So we went back to talking about the vibes... So it's not a concept album, the themes are very psychological and subconscious.
‘Don't Go in the Forest’ is a metaphor for the weird kid who's into metal music. The kid who is told not to go into the forest. He wonders why, when he wants to go there, he wants to taste the forbidden fruit and also embrace the values when you enter that dark forest. Metal is really weird in the sense that metal is fun and it's a powerful experience...
Avatar is metal in the forest. When you're lost at night in the forest in a place you shouldn't be. There's a light and music in the distance: you're entering the world of Avatar! That's how I would describe the album, but it describes Avatar more generally... It's not a concept album, but Avatar is conceptual art in my mind! The concept isn't the album, but the band that made this album...
The cover pays homage to horror literature with a nod to Stephen King's ‘It’...
... (He cuts in) Absolutely! I had forgotten, but when we gave the ball away, everyone and I made the connection... Thank you, Stephen (smile)!
But it was also horror in the sense that when we did the photo shoots for the album artwork, it was night-time in the forest and the camera flashes were like lightning illuminating the dark forest: I loved it!
Before arriving at this shoot in a forest near Gothenburg, we drove along a brightly lit motorway and then turned onto a forest road: it was like something out of a horror film! Just talking about it gives me the shivers. Like in The Shining, he turns and finds himself face to face with the twins...
Stephen King again and again...
Yes, even though I think Kubrick's version of The Shining is the best.
I remember seeing that moment when he finds himself facing the twins and it shocked me because at the time, I was too young to watch that film!
It was above all about having a Manowar-style song!
You mentioned the dynamic side of the songs. With “Tonight We Must Be the Warriors”, which opens like a hymn with flute and choirs, then guitars, we are plunged straight into your music. A real intro for a concept album that isn't one after all...
What I wanted with this song was, above all, to have a Manowar-style song! When I was young, I started listening to metal, but I really got into it when I listened to power metal with its medieval and fantasy side... I can write songs in this style, but Jonas (NdStruck: Jonas Jarlsby, guitarist) is the king (smile)! That was our approach with Avatar, with a parodic side to it in a sense, but with complete sincerity and love.
But beyond paying homage to a musical style, I am totally against any form of authoritarian government, I am not in favour of feudal states.
The term ‘warrior’ in metal evokes tough guys who kick ass... I could certainly write a song about soldiers because I think Ukraine has to fight to keep the country free and democratic and fight against the invading dictator. But I could never glorify that story. I could write such a song with all my heart, but being a soldier is a tragic thing: sometimes necessary and important to defend your ideals, but it's still a tragedy. So, behind the word ‘warrior’ there are many complicated things.
But in this case, “Tonight We Must Be the Warriors”: it's not a choice, nor an honour, it's just something that has to be done. People are coming together to form a resistance and go into battle!
The first twenty songs you play on the guitar will always have something to do with the thousands of songs you'll write afterwards...
The second track, “In the Airwaves”, is the most rabid death metal, even if the vocals are clearer, following on from a more upbeat track. Isn't Avatar schizophrenic music made for schizophrenics?
Maybe! We don't care how we're perceived... I'll come back to what I was saying: if it makes sense to us, we go for it... But we also don't want to write the same song twice in a row: that's a rule we have. But at the same time, we have our roots, we have our musical and melodic DNA shaped by where we grew up, i.e. the culture of the country, the music played to children, everything that was popular at the time... before you make your own choices and start creating your own identity, discovering the music you want and learning to play: the first twenty songs you played on the guitar will always have something to do with the thousands of songs you'll write afterwards...
And for the band, that translates into aggressive, fast metal... “In the Airwaves” is the fastest song we've been able to do in almost twenty years, in terms of beats per minute.
And that brings us back to the dynamic you mentioned at the beginning of the interview, because beyond the initial rhythm, there's this hyper-melodic chorus that makes the song more impactful because of that...
...contrast! Exactly!
For me, metal, and power metal in particular, gives me the feeling of flying. And when you have something fast and intense, you feel like the walls are coming down and everything is opening up at the moment of the chorus, and that's when you feel like you're flying.
Still on the subject of contrast. Psychoanalysis moment: could these successive passages of screamed and clear vocals suggest a duel between the conscious and the unconscious, between the weak man who is subjected to the assaults of the loud voice inside him that invites him to commit murder?
Maybe (smiles). And I think that's one of the reasons why this album is so melodic in its vocals. I only use death metal vocals when it's justified. But it's true that when I'm in the studio and I do it, I think to myself, ‘Finally!’. I always wanted to be in a death metal band.
But it's true that the way you sing, the music and the lyrics have to be connected...
I'm not sure about the schizophrenic aspect, but it's clearly aggressive and it reinforces the madness and confrontation... That sound can be used for many things. In “Captain Goat”, for example, with a short pre-chorus, it's to have that commanding voice in that part of the song, so it makes sense and connects with the lyrics...
Every time they've tried to accuse someone and link them to dark music [...] they've been proven wrong every time!
“Dead And Gone And Back Again”, between symphonic and darkness, puts us in the killer's head. As the world has become increasingly violent, aren't you afraid that your lyrics will be misinterpreted or, worse, taken literally, even though they are clearly fiction?
No! No, because every time they've tried to accuse someone and link them to dark music, particularly in the 1980s
and the panic surrounding Satanism, they've been proven wrong every single time!
It's not music that makes young people do bad things. On the contrary, it provides outlets because music creates connections.
I only see the positive! For example, I was introduced to a girl this summer. She had been in an accident, she was in a coma and the doctors told her she would never walk again, but during her recovery, she fought hard while constantly listening to our music and she wanted to thank me for that. For my part, I am extremely grateful for that: it's incredible and flattering! I appreciate the power of music to motivate someone.
In this girl's case, it was her life experience with who she was. In this case, our music resonated positively with something she already had within her. But it's true that sometimes it can resonate negatively, but with something negative that was already there. Ultimately, the problem or the solution lies elsewhere: it's more complex than simply making a connection with music.
Nevertheless, I am convinced that the darkest, most forbidden thing is the healthiest solution: it allows for psychological confrontation... It's like people's misunderstanding of horror films: I don't think horror films are the worst thing for young people to watch. On the contrary, there are some very good horror films: the best horror films are those where you care about the people in danger. Those are the times when I'm scared. I'm not scared because there's a monster with sharp teeth. Beyond the fear of surprise, what really scares me is when I'm told a story about someone in danger and I fear for them. In this regard, for a long time, I thought ‘The Fellowship of the Ring’ was the best horror film because in the battle in the mines of Moria, Frodo tries to flee from the trolls; I was terrified because I cared about Frodo's fate! It's horror at its best because it's filled with empathy...
It's the same with anything that's forbidden, and breaking the taboos of life in an artistic form allows you to open up a conversation with people who do bad things...
The problem is algorithms and the isolation of young people who turn to influencers like Andrew Tate, who only make the situation worse for these young people. These people interact with artificial intelligence, which is their only company... That's what hurts people! On the contrary, when I see what our music does for people in this situation: it opens their minds!
But it's true that the virtual world has become extremely dangerous: but if you like a band like Cannibal Corpse, which is considered the most shocking band with its lyrics about murder, you'll find forums where people talk about Cannibal Corpse and connect with each other. There are certainly lonely people who are no longer isolated because they have found a community around a band like ours as well.
So, the fact that I sing that I killed a woman and a man in a song that tells a ghost story, I don't think that's bad: it's just a song, after all. And if it has to do something, it does it in a positive way!
In the same way, no one became a Nazi by listening to “Angel of Death” (NdStruck: by Slayer), no one tried to experiment on twins because they listened to “Angel of Death” (NdStruck: in reference to the experiments of Joseph Mengele, nicknamed the Angel of Death).
No one became a Nazi by listening to “Angel of Death”.
The album ends on a high note with “Magic Lantern”. The album ends abruptly, as if to tell us that the story isn't really over and that a sequel is looming in the sewers. Is Stephen King's shadow still hanging over us?
We'll do something else next time (laughs)! But there are always links between the albums. For example, “Captain Goat” links “Dance Devil Dance” and this new album thematically, an intuitive theme that started from nothing and kept growing, and at one point I realised I had something.
But yes, “Magic Lantern” is a good epic track to end the album with, and from a musical point of view, we have to stop one way or another (smiles)...
And still, should we see this song as a tribute to Ozzy Osbourne, with your singing style that is strangely similar to his?
I think it goes back to the coolest thing I ever did when I was 16. I wrote OZZY on my knuckles before going to school.
Ozzy never went into head voice, he always stayed in his slow voice even when he went up into the high notes. When I sang this song, I didn't do it too aggressively, which opens up a lot of doors. And “Magic Lantern” made me very happy because I didn't write the vocal lines, Tim (NdStruck: Tim Öhrström, guitar) who did that. The verse was inspired by Black Sabbath's “A Hard Road”, even before I started singing on it. So yes, there's definitely a Black Sabbath/Ozzy influence on that song...
We're still challengers!
Your press release states that ‘no matter how far they go, they have vowed to remain challengers’... That's clearly no longer the case...
But in our minds, we're still challengers! For example, Taylor Swift is incredibly more popular than us: compared to her, we're nothing! I'm not the Pope either (laughs)!
True, but we first met in 2014 when ‘Hail of Apocalypse’ was released, and what a journey you've been on since then! You recently opened for Iron Maiden and you'll be touring with Metallica and Pantera in 2026...
... Who are so much more popular than we are! We're the smallest band on the tour...
But going back to what I was saying at the beginning of the interview, it's like in a video game: we've moved up to the next level, but now we're facing stronger bosses......
And new goals to achieve...
Exactly!
Speaking of which, you're going to be touring France and Mexico for special Halloween concerts... Looking back, would you have imagined reaching such a level of popularity in 2014?
In 2014? I don't know. In 2004? Yes (laughs)! Because if I think back to when I was a teenager – 17 years old – I thought I was going to tour with Metallica, that I was going to tour the world, do interviews... So yes, of course, as a teenager, I saw myself doing that (smiles)...
In 2014, we were in a different state of mind.
We believed in that ambition and everything happened faster.
And when was the moment when you realised that you were going to achieve what you dreamed of doing as a teenager, i.e. touring with Metallica and doing interviews?
The special thing about Avatar is that the guys have something in their eyes, a motivation... we're ambitious! We believed in this ambition and everything happened faster because we rehearsed a lot, we wrote a lot of songs... When we went to a concert, we watched the bands looking at the audience and not their instruments... and then we rehearsed with the lights off to get used to it. John (NdStruck: John Alfredsson, drums) had a metronome in his ears and we would start the songs in half tempo and on the tenth step, we would switch to full tempo over and over again on all the songs in the dark... As a singer, I would fall asleep (laughs) - I was undisciplined among these disciplined musicians. Of course, you might think that's rubbish, but it gave us a guideline...
When you're young, you think you know everything, that you have the answers to all the questions, you're confident because you don't have enough experience of falling down and fighting your way back to the top. But in 2014, we were starting to have that experience and we were starting to believe in it, but in small, more realistic steps... We were on the right track, but in 2014, we were just starting to really get into the business.
So that means bigger stages. Do you know how you're going to showcase this new album on stage?
Yes, the stages are already designed and are currently being built. There will also be new light shows, we're going to use some crazy new stuff... Everything is on track: it should be a very interesting stage. The whole design is linked to the music: the track “Death and Glitz” has this techno beat underneath the metal riffs and the light show will reflect that techno beat side as well...
Right now, I'm really starting to rehearse the setlist of new songs. It's an exciting time because we can try to make plans and try to get an idea of how we want to move and behave on stage with a song, but it will only really become real when we are on stage for the first time and we play one of these new songs for the first time and we see what happens on stage with the audience. The first dates of a tour with new songs are very exciting for that reason because it starts to come to life and grow...
Looking forward to seeing it in March 2026. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
And thank you to Adrianstork for his contribution...