In addition to the fact that Steven Wilson's work has always had a deep thought behind it, at the risk of disappointing some of his fans, each album by the prolific British artist has always had the merit of avoiding repetition. So it's only logical that this new album - consisting of just two tracks - marks a new turning point in the Porcupine Tree frontman's career...
The most important thing for me every time I make a new album is to ask myself the question: why am I making this album?
We know that you never release an album by chance. Apart from the philosophical concept of the album (man's place in the universe), what was your state of mind when you were composing the album?
Steven Wilson: The most important thing for me every time I make a new album is to ask myself the question why am I making this album? What am I going to do differently with this album that I wouldn't have done before? What's the point of doing more or less the same thing? In the end, I always need something that excites me and that would excite the listener or at least, if not excite them, surprise them...
After my last album, I didn't know what I was going to do. And I thought it might be a challenge to collaborate with someone - a filmmaker - to create music for an exhibition or something like that. One of the people I spoke to about it was a very good friend of mine - Alexander Mila - who runs an organisation called Space Rocks. Space Rocks is an organisation dedicated to bringing together the world of astronomy and science with musicians and creativity, which is a very interesting concept because there is a lot of interest from both sides.
During our conversations, he asked me if I had heard of the overview effect. As I had never heard of it, he began to explain what this effect was. It is a recognisable phenomenon experienced by astronauts: the first time they go into space and look at the Earth, they have a profound moment of understanding that can be either negative or positive, or a mixture of the two. I was immediately fascinated by this idea. I can imagine what an incredible moment it must be. And right away, I thought there was an album to be made.
As you mentioned, ‘The Overview’ is inspired by the concept of the overview effect, a cognitive experience astronauts have when they observe the Earth from space. You are now 57 years old. Do you think that this taking a step back from Man's place in the universe reflects a form of wisdom that comes with age or a form of disillusionment with the fact that Man will never change?
I don't think it has anything to do with age because the majority of the most dangerous people on our planet are from the 1970s. ‘Perspective’ was an alternative title for this album to remind people that our place in space and time is tiny...
The Earth doesn't matter, our life doesn't matter and it's a beautiful thing to accept that idea...
We are nothing
... Absolutely, and I don't consider it negative to remember this; on the contrary, I think it's something very positive. From the point of view of the universe, our life doesn't matter. We live on a planet that is one of billions of other planets in a galaxy, and this galaxy is one of billions of other galaxies. The Earth doesn't matter, our life doesn't matter, and it's a beautiful thing to accept this idea and enjoy the ride...
The idea that we are the curators, the carers, of the absurd planet
Have you always accepted this idea?
I feel like it has always been the case. I want to remember this idea and I have spent a lot of time - like all of us - thinking about all of this. But I don't spend enough time looking around me and reminding myself that life is something bizarre that was created by the cosmos and that gave us this gift of life. My life is an instant, in the scale of the universe, my life is an instant... On the scale of the Earth, which has existed for more than four million years, human beings have been on Earth for the last five minutes and the Earth will continue for many years after we have disappeared... The idea that we are the curators, the carers, of the absurd planet. We share the planet with many other species and we don't treat them very well...
You say we share...
Yes, it's true, we don't share!
Artificial Intelligence [...] is probably the greatest threat to our humanity that we have ever encountered
And even among us, people with a lot of money have the power to change our humanity and unfortunately in a negative way...
But that's always been the case, hasn't it? It's funny because there's a conference going on in Paris right now about Artificial Intelligence, which is probably the greatest threat to our humanity that we have ever faced. There are all these questions and for me, this album is just to remind people that our place in the universe is fragile and insignificant... and that's beautiful. Life is a beautiful thing, but people need to be reminded of that in order to have some perspective...
Life is a beautiful thing, but people need to be reminded of that in order to have some perspective...
But unfortunately, we would have to remind the people who run our Humanity...
But I think these people are lost. They are lost causes!
The people you are talking about are beyond reason. We are not going to mention any names, but everyone will understand who we are talking about; their narcissism is so deeply rooted that it is impossible to reason with them.
But, in a way, we're all narcissists. Steven Wilson's name is known to many people and in that respect, you have a certain ego...
Completely!...
But your state of mind is not the same as these people. When do you think these people are going mad?
I don't know. Some of these people are sociopaths and have no empathy for others. I'm talking about human beings in general, but I think most people are pretty good: they want to do good. And it's sometimes important to remind them of certain things: for example, I'm vegan, I'm not trying to preach, but I talk about that a bit.
But I think you're absolutely right. We are all self-centred because we have become so ‘addicted’ and used to seeing the world in our digital devices and seeing ourselves reflected in these digital devices by checking how many ‘likes’ our videos have, how many ‘followers’ we have... It's so stupid and it's the worst aspect of human psychology. Under these conditions, presenting an album like ‘The Overview’ is my way of trying to... For example, the album begins with a scene in which an alien asks me, an earthling, or the listener, if we remember him and if we have forgotten to look around us... He asks us if we haven't forgotten all that in favour of this little microcosm that we have created just for ourselves...
But who am I, really? I'm not in a position of influence, but I can highlight all these things and make those who listen to my music think about them...
I'm 57 years old today and obviously I'll never be a pop star.
A very beautiful way of thinking. At the time of ‘To The Bone’, you seemed to suffer from a lack of recognition and the album, which was very accessible, was intended to make up for this lack. In 2025, you arrive with an album of only two tracks lasting about 20 minutes, which in no way corresponds to current criteria for music consumption. Have you finally come to terms with your lack of recognition by the general public?
It's likely that I have. As you say, I'm 57 years old now and obviously I'll never be a pop star. But I never wanted to be a pop star. What I've always wanted is for music to be available to everyone who loves it.
It's a fight I have to wage constantly: how can I make sure that my music - which is quite accessible and easy to like - is liked by the public? That's what I do every time I promote an album, and especially now: I'm trying to expand my audience with my new music.
The problem I've had during my career is that my career has evolved in one direction while the trend in the music industry has evolved in the other... The trend in the music industry is moving more and more towards mainstream pop that demands little attention, and this is what we can see through social networks like TikTok, namely music consumed in 15 seconds! And I, for my part, am offering a 42-minute album and I expect you to listen to it. That's really the heart of the problem and I don't really have an answer, but I'll share this question with you: why is it that every day of the year, thousands of people go to the cinema, sit down to watch a two-hour film, and can't do the same with music?
Why? Because most people don't think of music as a journey. I usually listen in the dark with my eyes closed and make up my own story......
That's how I do it too!
The record industry has done its best to get us to forget this way of consuming music in favour of the ‘playlist’ culture...
But people don't do it...
And that's my question: why do they do it at the cinema and not for music? The record industry has done its best to make us forget this way of consuming music in favour of the ‘playlist’ culture...
... or also simply because people are lazy and let themselves be carried away by a film in which they don't have to think, unlike listening to an album in its entirety, where you have to be creative by imagining your own story?
There must be something in that too. You may be right... but conversely, there are films that demand a lot from their audience: for example, Christopher Nolan's films demand a lot... Millions of people went to see Oppenheimer - a very cerebral three-hour film - which demands a lot, so why can't those same people listen to an album?
Some may find the format of ‘The Overview’ daring, but you had already chosen the same format for the No Man album ‘Love You To Bits’. Is this your way of resisting the fact that ‘One of the wonders of the world is going down’ (ND Luc: lyrics from ‘The Sound Of Muzak’ by Porcupine Tree)?
Partly. One of the things I talk about a lot - when I talk about this album and my career - is this notion of alternative music that has always existed. When I discovered music in the 1980s, alternative music was The Cure, Cocteau Twins and The Smiths, and I loved those bands. In the 1990s, this notion of alternative music evolved: it was now Nirvana. Nirvana, an alternative band when they are one of the biggest bands in the world?
I consider that in 2025, I am making alternative music!
You consider Nirvana to be the greatest band?
It's probably the biggest alternative band: there are millions of copies... But most people say it's alternative music. And I think there's always been this notion of alternative music in the industry. And, in a sense, I consider that in 2025, I'm making alternative music! Because what is ‘mainstream’ music? ‘Mainstream’ music is two-minute pop songs often sung by female artists dressed like prostitutes who sell their music on TikTok in fifty seconds. That's ‘mainstream’ music! I couldn't be further from that idea (Laughs): I'm an old guy who makes conceptual music and you won't find me on TikTok... although apparently you can find me on TikTok...
All this to say that the alternative has always represented an important part of the music industry because there will always be people looking for something deeper: ‘Dark Side of the Moon’ continues to sell thousands of copies every year to people who probably like to listen to deep albums with a real concept.
Speaking of concept, would you say that since ‘The Harmony Codex’, your music has become more intellectual?
Not that I can remember. I think there has always been that desire in my music. I think that ‘Future Bites’ and ‘To The Bone’ were attempts to create something more major, a little more accessible. ‘The Harmony Codex’ drew on many aspects of my music and brought them together. The ambience, the electronics, the progressive side, the jazz, the pop sensibility, the rock sensibility, it was all brought together and ‘The Overview’ continues this trend...
You talk about a mixed style. ‘The Overview’ is part of a purely progressive or even atmospheric rock tradition, and ultimately your penchant for electro is not very present except at certain moments on the track ‘The Overview’. Why this choice when the subject of the album could have lent itself to more electro?
That's a very good question and one I can't answer (laughs)! I simply follow my music. But I don't know why. There are a lot of electronic elements but you're right, the guitar is much more present on this album.
Once again, I don't know why but I always try to do something different with each album and that's how it happened.
For me, everything starts with the concept
It is indeed paradoxical because there is less electro than in the previous ones, even though the subject lent itself to it more: a desire on your part to destabilise your audience?
I'm not sure I'm even aware of my motivation for doing this. But you're right, there is a kind of irony in this approach. But you know, there's the space rock tradition with Pink Floyd, Hawkwind, Grateful Dead... In fact, for me, it all starts with the concept. And it's an example of an unusual situation for me, knowing that I had a title and the concept itself before I'd even written a single note of music. I knew that this album would be called ‘The Overview’ before I'd even written a single note of music. I also knew that it was going to be a long conceptual journey and that it was going to be a long piece of music. I had the feeling that it wouldn't make sense to make ten short songs to evoke this subject. I knew that it had to be in a long format and that also led me to use a slightly different musical vocabulary...
This new album, consisting of two long pieces, reminds me of a previous interview and more specifically an answer you gave that I often bring up in interviews with other artists, which is about knowing when to stop writing a piece... How did you go about these two songs that you could have made last even longer?
I wanted this album to have the shape and the flow of an old vinyl record with two long pieces like in the old days. ‘Tubular Bells’ (NdStruck: Mike Oldfield), “In A Silent Way” (NdStruck: Miles Davies), “Rubycon” (NdStruck: Tangerine Dreams)... all these classics that had just two tracks and in my mind, it's the format of old vinyl and for that reason, I knew that this album would last 45 minutes maximum.
One gets the impression that your two recent musical phases illustrate two contrasting visions: a first one that is more angular, percussive and masculine, followed by a more calm and contemplative, almost feminine approach. These visions seem to find their embodiment with ‘The Overview’ and these two tracks. Is this a relevant interpretation of your work, or do you see things differently?
I don't try to analyse what I do. I'm trying to get around your question (smile) but I'll answer it in my own way: there are two really interesting things about making music. First, when I make music, I'm no longer aware of my influences. People ask me if I'm influenced by this or that group because it reminds them of that group...
... Which was understandable when you started out...
But it still is today...
I spent thirty years building my own musical vocabulary
Sure, but beyond the influences we all have, you've managed to create your own identity...
Exactly. The fact is that you can always hear influences in the music of any musician: nothing comes from nowhere.
Firstly, I'm not really aware of my influences. And secondly, if I am, it's because I've spent thirty years building my own musical vocabulary. I have a certain sound and a certain approach in the way I do things that is instantly recognisable, and you've described it.
But the fact is that one of the really interesting things is that when I make music, I'm not aware of it because making music for me is like breathing! And it's only when I have to talk about it with people like you that I realise that...
Nevertheless, it's true, your interpretation of things is perfectly valid and I'm not going to contradict it at all, but it's not something I'm intellectually aware of. Once again, for me, it's like breathing and it's just my style now.
Making music for me is like breathing!
That being the case, I think you'll give me the same answer to this question: what connection do you see (if any) between your now stabilised private life and the way you compose music? Do you think anything has changed?
I don't know. It's very interesting because obviously many of my fans think that being married is the reason why I started to make more pop-oriented music, when that wasn't the case at all: it's a pure coincidence......
And this possible shift towards more pop music doesn't make sense when listening to this new album...
Exactly!
I feel very comfortable with who I am and the place I occupy in the music industry
But going back to the previous question about the feeling that there were two visions: one more masculine and the other feminine, this second vision might be influenced by your private life...
Probably, and my two daughters, my two daughters-in-law... It has certainly changed me. I feel much more at ease now... But it more or less comes back to your previous question about whether I am still interested in being ‘mainstream’ or being successful... I feel very comfortable with the person I am and the place I occupy in the music industry: what I do, being the alternative, being the alternative for people who still love conceptual rock music. And of course, part of that comes from the fact that I feel very happy in my personal private life and feel this stability that allows me to continue on this path...
Have your explorations of sound textures and sound design in ‘The Future Bites’ or ‘The Harmony Codex’ led you to approach musical narration differently on this new opus?
Of course! Once again, it's difficult for me to analyse this and give you specifics, but I think it's an album that I could only have made after making ‘The Future Bites’ and ‘The Harmony Codex’...
They are stages?
Exactly, and it's a whole process of developing style and sound. As you said, many of the electronic aspects of the latest albums are not so predominant on this album, but they are still there.
Despite everything, you are aware of this evolution, do you have any idea what the next stage could be?
Not yet (smile).
With a smile, you suggest that you already more or less know...
(Laughs) I always have an idea of what I'm going to do next, but I still have a lot of work to do with this album, starting with touring: I want to tour with this album and continue to talk about this album... I don't want to stress too much about what my next move will be, but it will certainly be something different once again.
This brings us back to what you said at the beginning of the interview, namely that you don't have time to look around you with this musical creative frenzy...
I try to take my time but it's true that this album came relatively quickly - 18 months after ‘The Harmony Codex’ - which is nothing!
There has always been a part of me that thinks that each album is the last and that I will have nothing more to say!
But going back to this creative frenzy and the short time between these last two albums, aren't you afraid of having nothing more to say?
There has always been a part of me that thinks that each album is the last and that I will have nothing more to say!
But this feeling is very common.
But it is particularly true in your case because you release......
... A lot of albums, I know...
At 57, I still consider myself at the top of my game
Despite everything, your strength is that you manage to renew yourself with this strong identity that we were talking about earlier, with the risk that some listeners will have when listening to the album for the first time that it's a new Steven Wilson album with no surprises and that you might disappoint, but no, it's never the case...
It's music to my ears (laughs)! At 57, I still consider myself at the top of my game. I say that because most of the music I grew up with, most of the music I love, most of the bands... created their greatest work when they were 20/30 years old and for the rest of their career they rested on their laurels: this is the case with Pete Townshend, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Kate Bush and Peter Gabriel. They all created their best albums when they were 20 or 30 and after that, they just coasted on what they had done in their youth...
At 57, I still consider myself at the top of my game, which is quite unusual. I think one of the advantages I have as a musician is that I am still very passionate about listening to, experimenting with and discovering music. And I love all kinds of music.
The same can also be said of your friend Mikael Åkerfeldt, who is back with a final Opeth that is not only a return to his roots but certainly the band's most ambitious and perhaps most progressive concept album...
That's true!
To finish off and to stay on the theme of space, Stanley Kubrick was a visionary with ‘2001: A Space Odyssey’. You yourself recently expressed concern about the arrival of Artificial Intelligence in music. We know that there are already entire playlists on Spotify composed entirely by Artificial Intelligence. You talked a little about it earlier when you mentioned a threat, but how do you see the future of music?
It's a big question that everyone is talking about. It's clear that Artificial Intelligence is still in its infancy and is not about to disappear. So the question is how an artist like me or any artist will find a way to integrate it into our process.
You could argue that Artificial Intelligence has been in music for years, ever since we had samplers, autotune, software that reproduces instruments like drums, etc. This technology has been in place for years to assist the creative process...
Music is about personality
Assist is the word, but it's changing...
Absolutely. Now we are in a situation where it will not only assist us but intentionally replace us.
I have always thought that music is a question of personality. It is always a question of the soul, of the human condition. The question is whether Artificial Intelligence can reproduce that... I think that for certain genres of music it is already the case, such as techno music - Artificial Intelligence can generate hours and hours of it in a second - because techno music is based on very strict parameters... I like techno music but there is not much human quality in it...
Now, can Artificial Intelligence compose an album like ‘The Overview’? Not now, but who knows in five years' time? It's a rather frightening prospect.
The existential question is whether the public will agree to listen to music if they know it is created by Artificial Intelligence. Will people have an intellectual objection to that?
And this brings us back to your question as to why the public can sit down and watch a film for three hours and cannot do the same for music because quite simply, people consume music and do not listen to it... and I fear that this majority of the public will not make any difference between music created by Artificial Intelligence or an artist...
I fear so too... And I would even say that the question is not necessarily what our generation thinks about it, but rather what young people think about it. Because if this new generation doesn't think it's a problem for them - because they have a completely different attitude to technology and Artificial Intelligence - if they have no philosophical, moral or existential problem with listening to music totally generated by Artificial Intelligence, we're going to have big problems (Smile).
I don't know, but what is certain is that it will be fascinating to see how it develops in the coming years.
We'll see, but before that, we'll have time to enjoy this new album.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
(In French) ‘Merci beaucoup’
Thanks to Newf and Calgepo for their contribution...